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Dragging Sections / Escape Button

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Dragging Sections / Escape Button

Unread postby Leo » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:23 am

Hi,

I am a registered user, and I LOVE this program - it's definitely the best notebook available.

I have asked before about the ability to drag sections (to move them to another part of the tree), and you said it maybe will be added in the future... Now there is a new version, but still no ability to drag sections... I love the new features and fixes, but it is really bad to still not be able to drag sections to move them. When you have a section at the bottom of the tree, and you need to move it to the top of the tree, and inbetween there are 100 sections, then it takes a LOT of clicks to move it!!! This is a major problem. If it is too difficult to make it sections that can be dragged, then maybe you could add a 'Move' option in the 'Section Properties' popup...

Also I have one question : when I press ESC (the 'Escape' button on my keyboard), the Notebook automatically minimizes. Is there a setting to stop it from minimizing when I press ESC?

Regards,
Leo
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Unread postby Marsianin » Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:14 pm

I know I know I know about dragging sections. I'm working on it right now so it will be available in 1.6.

And about ESC. Why you want to disable this feature? By default ESC key does nothing in Windows when you're in an application.
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Unread postby Guest » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:18 am

Thanks, I look forward to dragging :)

In many programs the ESC key will cancel whatever you're doing - it is even working like that in Mars Notebook, eg. if you right-click and the popup menu appears, then you press ESC and it closes the popup menu... but if you accidentally press it twice then the program disappears!

My trouble with ESC closing the Notebook is this : I also use a textfile-editing program (TextPad) and in that program it is very useful to press ESC to deselect any currently selected text - I do it so many times every day so it is a habit... And so now I find myself pressing ESC to deselect text while using Mars Notebook, and every time my Notebook disappears! I am not asking for ESC to deselect text (though it would be nice) but just that it doesn't have to close the Notebook...

Regards,
Leo
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Unread postby Marsianin » Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:28 am

Esc should close and not deselect. Because it's ESCAPE.
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Unread postby Guest » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:32 am

According to Wikipedia, the ESC key is called Escape because it was created to send Escape Sequences to peripherals, it has nothing to do with escaping/closing programs :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_sequence

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esc_key

Since it no longer serves it's original purpose, it now provides common functions such as : No, Quit, Exit, Cancel, or Abort

I think using ESC for deselecting text is like 'Cancel Current Selection', that seems appropriate...

Not many programs close when you press ESC... maybe it could just be optional?

Regards,
Leo[/i]
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Unread postby Marsianin » Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:27 pm

Anonymous wrote:such as : No, Quit, Exit, Cancel, or Abort

Exactly! It closes the program (means quit) but in our case it mustn't be closed so it minimizes.
There a lot of other keys which will cancel the selection: just move cursor into another place with direction keys or mouse.

Did you ever work in MS-DOS? The ESC key always closes the program there... And I like it, because Alt+F4 is uncomfortable.
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Unread postby Guest » Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:19 am

OK well thanks anyway, I guess I will need to get out of the habit of pressing ESC.

Thanks for your work in making new features (like dragging) for this great program :thumbsup:

:)

Regards,
Leo
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Re:

Unread postby ruz » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:54 pm

Marsianin wrote:Did you ever work in MS-DOS? The ESC key always closes the program there... And I like it, because Alt+F4 is uncomfortable.

Wow..wow..wow! Yes I did work in MS-DOS since 3.20.
Please never say "never" I mean "always".
samples:
Can you quit from these MS-DOS programs?
copy con: any_text_file.txt
format b:
type any_big_text_file.txt | more
the list is almost endless.
I guess you mixed two keys ESC and Ctrl-C.
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Re: Dragging Sections / Escape Button

Unread postby Marsianin » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:15 pm

So what do you want to say? "Esc" means Escape
What about DOS programs...there also were a lot of programs written in Turbo Vision and that kind of the programs used Ctrl+X for exit. So Esc should escape (close or minimize)
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Re: Dragging Sections / Escape Button

Unread postby Leo » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:24 am

Yes, I was using TRSDOS and NEWDOS before Microsoft had even released their first MSDOS, and I have used every version of DOS since then. I have been using the ESC key as long as anybody, and it has had no definite purpose since it's original purpose stopped.

No, Esc does not mean Escape.

Esc means Escape Sequence, as you can see from the Wikipedia links I posted before. If you are not using the ESC key to send Escape Sequences to peripherals then you are not using it for it's actual purpose... So since you are making up a new purpose for the key, you can make it anything you like. I am not saying that you must make it work like I want, I am just saying that you can't justify the current usage with the explanation that Esc means Escape, because that is definitely not true! Escape Sequences are no longer used, so ESC can be used for anything that you wish.

According to dictionary.com, the word Escape has many meanings such as :

"to slip or get away, as from confinement or restraint; gain or regain liberty"

You can't slip away from a program. Closing the program does not regain your liberty. Programs do not confine and restrain you, so you can't Escape from them. If the key said 'EXIT' then it would be appropriate to close the program, but since it says 'ESC' it doesn't mean anything. Some DOS programs may exit when you press ESC, but what Windows programs will exit when you press ESC? Some Linux console programs may exit when you press ESC, but what Linux GUI programs exit when you press ESC? The ESC key may be commonly be used to exit text-only console programs, but I do not believe it is common in GUI environments - it may cancel the current operation, but it does not usually exit the program...

Regards,
Leo
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Re: Dragging Sections / Escape Button

Unread postby Marsianin » Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:42 pm

This will be an endless discussion...
Esc (Escape) will minimize Mars Notebook and nothing else.
It will not clean selection...there are a lot of ways to do it - just press any direction key (left/right/up/down) or click mouse button.
What about Windows...there is nothing made for comfortable use in it. Alt+F4 too ;) And in most cases Esc is not used at all.
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